190. Transformational Leadership and How to Get Unstuck

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In this episode, Julia speaks with Mai Chen, constitutional lawyer, author, and change-maker, about one of the most overlooked challenges of leading finding the energy to keep going when you feel stuck.

Mai reflects on what she calls “transcending worlds” – the process of shifting from one phase of life or leadership into another, especially after exhaustion or disappointment. She shares how energy, not time, is the true currency of leading, and how we often drain it trying to meet expectations, fit into old definitions of success, or push through without rest.

The conversation explores how to pause without guilt, rebuild momentum after burnout, and reconnect with a sense of purpose that feels alive again. Mai’s reflections remind us that the real work of leading isn’t just about direction, it’s about the Energy that sustains it.

About the Guest

Dr Mai Chen

Dr Mai Chen (LLB(Hons)(Otago), (LLM(Harvard),HonLLD(Otago), CMInstD), is a top barrister in NZ and President of NZ Asian Lawyers. She was previously Managing Partner, Chen Palmer Public and Employment law Specialists, independent non-executive Director, Bank of New Zealand Board, New Zealand, a member of the New Zealand Securities Commission member, Adjunct Professor at the University of Auckland Business School and School of Government, the Inaugural Chair, NZ Global Women, and a top 10 finalist, 2014 and 2016 New Zealander of the Year

About the Host

Julia Middleton

Julia Middleton is the host of the Women Emerging podcast and a best-selling author of “If that’s leading, I’m in” as well as two previous books: “Leading beyond Authority” and “Cultural Intelligence”. She is deeply committed to helping people from all backgrounds to find their own approach to leading.

In 2020, Julia launched Women Emerging and in 2022 she lead an expedition of 24 women to find ‘an approach to leading that resonates with women’. She now leads expeditions with women all over the world based on 4Es methodology, discovered in the first expedition.

Prior to that, Julia was founder and, for over thirty years, Chief Executive of Common Purpose, which grew to become one of the biggest leadership development organisations in the world.
Julia is also an Ambassador for the Aurora Prize based in Armenia, on the boards of Alfanar Venture Philanthropy in the Arab World and Equality Now, which operates globally, and on the Advisory Councils of Fundacao Dom Cabral in Brazil and Synapse in Pakistan.

Born in London and brought up in New York, Julia was educated at French Lycées and graduated from the London School of Economics. She is married, with five children and lots of grandchildren.