In this episode, Julia wraps up the Cultural Intelligence series with a powerful conversation with Ukonwa Ojo, founder and CEO of Zaia Ventures.

What starts as a meeting of two very different “cores” becomes a deep exploration of how we lead, how we listen, and what it takes to connect across differences.

Ukonwa speaks candidly about the concept of Core and Flex, and how finally having language for this idea helped her understand and explain how she moves through the world. She shares that while her core is firmly rooted in her Christian faith, her capacity to flex beyond that allows her to connect across cultures, beliefs, and ideologies with empathy and openness. It’s not a contradiction, she says, it’s clarity.

Julia and Ukonwa dive into the realities of clashing cores: how to stay in conversation when you disagree at a fundamental level, and how to decide when to speak, when to stay silent, and when to walk away. Ukonwa reflects on moments of being misunderstood, being triggered by cultural language, and making space for others.

“Everybody doesn’t deserve your point of view. But if someone’s open, you owe them curiosity,” expresses Ukonwa.

Listen to this one to gather how to listen through discomfort, stay present through difference, and hold onto curiosity even when our backs go up.

It’s a fitting and moving end to a series about what it takes to lead with Cultural Intelligence in a deeply divided world.

About the Host

Julia Middleton

Julia Middleton is the host of the Women Emerging podcast and a best-selling author of “If that’s leading, I’m in” as well as two previous books: “Leading beyond Authority” and “Cultural Intelligence”. She is deeply committed to helping people from all backgrounds to find their own approach to leading.

In 2020, Julia launched Women Emerging and in 2022 she lead an expedition of 24 women to find ‘an approach to leading that resonates with women’. She now leads expeditions with women all over the world based on 4Es methodology, discovered in the first expedition.

Prior to that, Julia was founder and, for over thirty years, Chief Executive of Common Purpose, which grew to become one of the biggest leadership development organisations in the world.
Julia is also an Ambassador for the Aurora Prize based in Armenia, on the boards of Alfanar Venture Philanthropy in the Arab World and Equality Now, which operates globally, and on the Advisory Councils of Fundacao Dom Cabral in Brazil and Synapse in Pakistan.

Born in London and brought up in New York, Julia was educated at French Lycées and graduated from the London School of Economics. She is married, with five children and lots of grandchildren.

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